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Message 18459 - Posted: 11 Feb 2014, 14:59:19 UTC - in response to Message 18453.

Hello,

I am sorry to insist, but this is really the opposite of an improvement, and against "BOINC's philosophy" if each cruncher must start making complicated/perplexing tests and adjustments to try to make the best use of their hardware.

These comments are recurring even between highly motivated and dedicated crunchers, including some from Alliance Francophone.

Both ATI/nVidia users.

I am happy to have the possibility to use app_config.xml files.

But when it comes to .config files ... :/

Not many crunchers know how to manage/configure them ...

I understand, as other crunchers, that you all do your best to have this project running very well.

I tried, using a .config, but I am not sure I will continue to crunch on Collatz if it remains so difficult to configure.

Thank You

Kind Regards

Philippe



Option 1: I can make the app use defaults that work on the newest and most expensive GPUs. For users with older, slower GPUs, the application will crash. They will be told to spend $600 on a new GPU if they want to participate in this project.

Option 2: I can make the app use defaults that will work on ALL GPUs. The screen response may be poor for those with older GPUs, but it will work. Those with faster GPUs have the option to alter the config settings in order to get the most out of their GPUs.

I chose option 2. if you have another option that you consider better and can explain how to implement it that will still allow people to optimize it as well, please let me know.

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Message 18460 - Posted: 11 Feb 2014, 15:08:04 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2014, 15:08:24 UTC

My GPU:

ATI 7990
ATI 7950

Are at the picks with the Rev. 6.4

After multiple tests I give up.

@+

Profile [AF>Amis des Lapins] Phil1966
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Message 18461 - Posted: 11 Feb 2014, 15:23:42 UTC - in response to Message 18459.
Last modified: 11 Feb 2014, 15:59:20 UTC

Hello,

I am sorry to insist, but this is really the opposite of an improvement, and against "BOINC's philosophy" if each cruncher must start making complicated/perplexing tests and adjustments to try to make the best use of their hardware.

These comments are recurring even between highly motivated and dedicated crunchers, including some from Alliance Francophone.

Both ATI/nVidia users.

I am happy to have the possibility to use app_config.xml files.

But when it comes to .config files ... :/

Not many crunchers know how to manage/configure them ...

I understand, as other crunchers, that you all do your best to have this project running very well.

I tried, using a .config, but I am not sure I will continue to crunch on Collatz if it remains so difficult to configure.

Thank You

Kind Regards

Philippe



Option 1: I can make the app use defaults that work on the newest and most expensive GPUs. For users with older, slower GPUs, the application will crash. They will be told to spend $600 on a new GPU if they want to participate in this project.

Option 2: I can make the app use defaults that will work on ALL GPUs. The screen response may be poor for those with older GPUs, but it will work. Those with faster GPUs have the option to alter the config settings in order to get the most out of their GPUs.

I chose option 2. if you have another option that you consider better and can explain how to implement it that will still allow people to optimize it as well, please let me know.


Dear Slicker,

Thank you for your quick respons.

a) I am not the onlyone to complain about the actual situation. One should not kill the messenger.
You will see or read that VERY EXPERIENCED crunchers are giving up ...
b) $ 600 is exagerated. Here in Europe yes, GPU's are very expensive.
At least 30 % more expensive than in the US. By the way, this is exactly what you did : nVidia crunchers need to go for an ATI if they want to continue crunching optimally.
c) I don't know how the other projects are choosing to code their app. Nevertherless, usually with a simple app_config.xml or app_info file you can solve almost all "problems".
d) I am only a small cruncher who invested into hardware in order to enjoy distributed computing, together with a team. My main objective is to crunch and have fun.
Not to test my hardware in order to understand how it will crunch best on each project.
BOINC should remain a "user friendly environment" ...
e) I am sure you will find an idea that suits all GPU crunchers.(My only actual point of comparison is PrimeGrid's options/choices system)
You're the specialist, I am not.

Finally, thank you for the credits you sent to crunchers who lost their WU's.
I am sure not all other projects would have done this.

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Message 18462 - Posted: 11 Feb 2014, 15:25:48 UTC - in response to Message 18456.

Simply math and complicated app, strange. Colltaz is the most difficult project to be run. Why we are to use W7/W8.1 and core 7.0.+ for such a basic math? I like XP and core 6.12.34.
What do tou mean by Legacy AMD Catalyst driver, I am a cruncher, not an IT AMD GPU ClosedCL expert for HD 4770. String Legacy AMD Catalyst driver was not found in the AMD site.


Firstly :
Perhaps this is it : https://www.google.com.tw/search?q=Legacy+AMD+Catalyst+driver

Secondly:
CC needs BOINC 7.0.x to make openCL work on GPU, 7.2.x on CPU, because only BOINC of these versions will detect your PC for openCL WUs.

Last but not least :
Collatz conjecture is easy math, but get it fast is complicated. As far as I know, this app uses a look-up table for 'jumping' 20 steps at a time, custom 128-bit arithmetic (because the number exceeds range of 64-bit integer), and highly parallelized algorithm for openCL computing. So it checks 700,000,000 numbers per second on my HD7850.

-Sosiris-

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Message 18471 - Posted: 11 Feb 2014, 23:46:35 UTC - in response to Message 18461.


a) I am not the onlyone to complain about the actual situation. One should not kill the messenger.
You will see or read that VERY EXPERIENCED crunchers are giving up ...
b) $ 600 is exagerated. Here in Europe yes, GPU's are very expensive.
At least 30 % more expensive than in the US. By the way, this is exactly what you did : nVidia crunchers need to go for an ATI if they want to continue crunching optimally.
c) I don't know how the other projects are choosing to code their app. Nevertherless, usually with a simple app_config.xml or app_info file you can solve almost all "problems".
d) I am only a small cruncher who invested into hardware in order to enjoy distributed computing, together with a team. My main objective is to crunch and have fun.
Not to test my hardware in order to understand how it will crunch best on each project.
BOINC should remain a "user friendly environment" ...
e) I am sure you will find an idea that suits all GPU crunchers.(My only actual point of comparison is PrimeGrid's options/choices system)
You're the specialist, I am not.

Finally, thank you for the credits you sent to crunchers who lost their WU's.
I am sure not all other projects would have done this.


a) I like hunting but I've never shot anyone. Yet.
b) These are all $700 or more. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%204022&IsNodeId=1&name=%24750%20-%20%241000
c) You can use an app_config file or an app_info file. No one ever said you couldn't. In fact, there are numerous posts on the message board with examples of them.
d) In order for BOINC to remain user friendly, then the app probably shouldn't crash on slower GPUs right? That's exactly why the default settings were lowered. The reason an app_config fixes problems is because most projects ONLY can run with really low settings. Collatz is one of the few that gives users an easy way to tweak the app. The config file is not my idea. It has been used by thousands upon thousands of users running the Lunatics optimized SETI apps.
e) the question is how does PG manage to make their OpenCL apps work for all the different types of GPUs? The answer is, they don't. When running on my 8400GS, the video lag so soooo bad that it takes several minutes for any mouse click or characters typed to show up. With Collatz, it works fine. Add either an app_config and run several at a time or modify the collatz config (or download either one already configured it from the opt_config folder) and the GPU load will be maxed out. With PG, you don't get a choice. With Collatz you do. On the other hand, a cruncher who wants max credits has the ability to do so even if that causes video lag. On PG, if you have a slow GPU and have video lag, there is no way to fix it. Running an app_config is useless.

It was also stated that "wen it commes to .config files, not many crunchers know how to manage/configure them." I agree. That's why I provide instructions. ;-)

Downloading an already created collatz config file is easier than creating an app_config file if you ask me. But, that's just my opinion.

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Message 18496 - Posted: 13 Feb 2014, 7:00:48 UTC - in response to Message 18471.

When collatz crashed, I was pretty upset. I waited patiently for things to be "fixed", and as soon as it came back online, I downloaded the new app, and began crunching. Within a half an hour, it crashed my system. I tried again - crash. I immediately decided to hold off for a bit, until things got smoothed out. I did not complain. I did not whine, and moan, and lament. I waited.

I check back in here today, and all, or a lot of, what I see are complaints. I haven't tried running the new version yet. I don't know where it will go, or how I might have to configure it. But I know I will figure it out. Now - I happen to know a bit about my rig. I should, I built it. I'm a member of Overclock.net. But really, everyone should get a to know little bit about their equipment, and how to figure things out for themselves. It's not that hard. I'm not saying this because I'm a "nerd", or a "geek". I'm saying this because knowing a bit about how things function can save you headaches and hassles. It can save you time. And - it can save you some serious money when things aren't working the way they're supposed to, or the way you would like them to. Tech fees are outrageous. I know - I'm a former tech. Of course I was working for someone else, so I got a pittance compared to the price they were charging, but that's neither here nor there. The fact is that you should want to know a bit. It will help you in more ways than one.

"Click here", and everything is solved.

This is one of the many things that's wrong with society today. Instant gratification, and no commitment. Don't bother learning anything. Don't bother enlightening one's self. In fact, anything that's a "bother" is to to be immediately, permanently, and altogether - at all costs - avoided.

@Slicker: Thanks for all you do. I appreciate everything required for you to keep this project up and running, and you're a better person than I. I don't know if I have a thick enough skin! Keep up the great work!!

</rant>

I'm going to go off and get this project running...

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Message 18497 - Posted: 13 Feb 2014, 7:31:59 UTC - in response to Message 18496.

FYI If the OpenCL version still crashes, check back in a day or two and the v6 CUDA apps should be ready to go. I'm testing now and they are looking pretty good. Better make that in two or three days since tomorrow is Valentines and I'll be in the dog house if I spent the evening in front of the computer.

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Message 18724 - Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:46:58 UTC - in response to Message 18417.

The second batch of credits was awarded yesterday.

Any idea when the remaining credits will be awarded? My host have had no compensation for credit lost during the outage.

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Message 18726 - Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 21:10:49 UTC - in response to Message 18724.

The second batch of credits was awarded yesterday.

Any idea when the remaining credits will be awarded? My host have had no compensation for credit lost during the outage.


Credit was granted to the user, not the individual hosts.

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Message 18727 - Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 21:46:54 UTC - in response to Message 18726.

The second batch of credits was awarded yesterday.

Any idea when the remaining credits will be awarded? My host have had no compensation for credit lost during the outage.


Credit was granted to the user, not the individual hosts.

Well then same question but at user level. My boinc stats page for collatz shows no obvious compensation on any day since the outage.

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