application Large Collatz Conjecture needs 56 Days to complete
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Profile bcavnaugh
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Message 19176 - Posted: 25 Apr 2014, 22:33:14 UTC
Last modified: 25 Apr 2014, 23:06:49 UTC

Is this in error I have been running 2 and both need 56 Days to complete.
name large_collatz_2383995792639936701555_26388279066624
application Large Collatz Conjecture

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Profile Zydor
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Message 19177 - Posted: 25 Apr 2014, 22:55:18 UTC - in response to Message 19176.
Last modified: 25 Apr 2014, 22:57:57 UTC

Let it run - that's a BOINC "quirk"

Its extremely hard, impossible frankly (for the BOINC app) to take new applications and predict accurately from get go because of the vast different numbers of cards, applications, machines, operating systems blah blah - cant be done.

So it goes right back to a dead safe guess, and over time the prediction gets better as it uses your card to extrapolate. If you watch the counter closely it will speed round quickly jumping chunks of time as it gets into what you have.

Meanwhile, look at the left number - time completed to date - take that value, take the percentage done, then extrapolate both to 100%, thats pretty accurate after around 10-20% done.

Meanwhile ignore the right hand "time remaining" figure .....

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Message 19178 - Posted: 25 Apr 2014, 23:07:21 UTC - in response to Message 19177.
Last modified: 25 Apr 2014, 23:09:15 UTC

Let it run - that's a BOINC "quirk"

Its extremely hard, impossible frankly (for the BOINC app) to take new applications and predict accurately from get go because of the vast different numbers of cards, applications, machines, operating systems blah blah - cant be done.

So it goes right back to a dead safe guess, and over time the prediction gets better as it uses your card to extrapolate. If you watch the counter closely it will speed round quickly jumping chunks of time as it gets into what you have.

Meanwhile, look at the left number - time completed to date - take that value, take the percentage done, then extrapolate both to 100%, thats pretty accurate after around 10-20% done.

Meanwhile ignore the right hand "time remaining" figure .....


Even after 4 and 5 Hours?
Even the Elapsed time is incorrect!

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Message 19179 - Posted: 25 Apr 2014, 23:36:37 UTC - in response to Message 19178.

Even after 4 and 5 Hours?


Yes .... think about the massive and unknown variations hardware and software throw at BOINC.

BOINC has to cope with unknown hardware, unknown software and unknown program languages/protocols, just cant be done any other way.

If you want a peek at whats involved - take a wonder around BOINC Trac:

BOINC Trac Wiki front page: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki

Current Job List: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/query

This one is rather like The Common Cold - every generation comes along and mutters "this should have been cured by now" ...... meanwhile, several generations later - they are still trying rofl.

This particular time prediction is famous in BOINC - its their "common cold" - there are so many different variables and conditions, its still not been cracked, and frankly never will be. We just have to put up with the inaccurate initial predictions - they get better over time, and it disappears as a problem - until you move to the next new application rofl :)

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Message 19194 - Posted: 26 Apr 2014, 10:58:29 UTC - in response to Message 19178.
Last modified: 26 Apr 2014, 11:00:50 UTC


Even after 4 and 5 Hours?
Even the Elapsed time is incorrect!


I see all you have are I7 cpu's and your initial post shows 8 cpu units running AND 1 gpu unit running, try setting your pc to only run 7 cpu units at a time leaving the 8th core free to feed the gpu and see if that stabilizes and speeds up things. Your gpu could have lots of idle time waiting to be fed, and since they can produce 10 times the work in the same amount of time it can be worth a try.

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Message 19199 - Posted: 26 Apr 2014, 18:40:44 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2014, 18:56:28 UTC

I have 6 GPUs running and 4 CPU running on an i7-3770K, Should this not me ok?

Looks like it take up to 18 or more hours to complete. I had ONE of SIX Complete Today. Points: 238,583.14


5888176 5497884 25 Apr 2014, 21:52:55 UTC 26 Apr 2014, 17:20:16 UTC Completed and validated 63,808.63 7.96 238,583.14 Large Collatz Conjecture v6.04 (cuda55)


FYI, You cannot use https for image tag.

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Message 19202 - Posted: 26 Apr 2014, 20:33:37 UTC - in response to Message 19199.
Last modified: 26 Apr 2014, 20:39:48 UTC

Two things to check:

First
Have a look inside:

C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\boinc.thesonntags.com_collatz

for (yours will be slightly different, I am AMD):

large_collatz_6.04_windows_x86_64__opencl_amd_gpu.CONFIG

file extension maybe slightly different - but you are looking for a very long filename similar to mine above.

Is it blank inside? There should be config details along the lines of:

verbose=1
items_per_kernel=22
kernels_per_reduction=9
threads=8
sleep=1

If it is blank, put those lines in with Notepad, watch the file extension on saving, don't save as .txt file.

With six GPUs running, probably best to run with kernel = 21 to start with, if then ok change to 22.

Second
Irrespective of what you find in the file above, the CPU setting should be changed from 0.01 to at least 0.25, 0.5 would be ideal. The application needs lots of CPU support. It maybe that NVidia cards can get along with less - not sure, I am AMD - but as far as I know its true for both AMD and NVidia.

Using the classic setting of 0.01 will slow it down horribly

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Message 19203 - Posted: 26 Apr 2014, 23:40:38 UTC

My workunit said it was going to take 1733 hours to complete. The BOINC client isn't very good at estimating time. But the more workunits you run the better the estimates will be. So far I've been running it for about 6 hours and its at about 20% complete, so I'm looking at a 30 hour completion time. (I've been estimating the time since it hit 1% and it has stayed pretty consistent at 30 hours completion time, give or take an hour.)

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Message 19205 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 0:35:25 UTC

My 7 first WUs are estimated to last 19H by the BOINC client, but I think they won't last more than 6 hours :)

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Message 19206 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 2:51:10 UTC
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 2:53:39 UTC

Should these settings just be in plain text?

Is there a description of what the settings do? I have a 7870XT in one computer and GTX titan in the other so I guess my settings would need to be different?

I assume the upping of CPU time should be in app_config.xml?

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Message 19225 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 12:24:23 UTC

On my R9 290X with the correct settings in the .config file, I don't need to free a CPU core to feed the GPU :)

I also noted that OpenCL applications would work better if affinity was locked to only one CPU (you can do this automatically with software like Bill2's Process Manager).

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Message 19228 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 15:08:44 UTC

If a Collatz WU is 10% done after 10 minutes, then it will take 100 minutes to complete the WU (e.g. 0.1x = 10 minutes, so x = 100 minutes). Yep, it really is that simple to compute.

That's not fancy enough evidently, so BOINC uses a complex algorithm which is supposed to result in better estimates. Unfortunately, it only works for SETI and other projects with random sized WUs and which use floating point math.

Collatz doesn't use any floating point math and the percent complete is linear, so a 3rd grader should be able to figure it out. But, BOINC can't. After enough WUs are calculated, the fancy algorithm eventually learns how to estimate properly. In the mean time, I am just as unhappy with the crap estimates as you are. The biggest problem is that when a new user sees that a WU will take 1000 hours, he aborts it and goes to another project even though it is just a bad estimate and the WU will finish in 12. But, the powers that be cannot be swayed.

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Message 19229 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 16:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 19228.

Mine got itself more or less sorted out after the second or third WU was completed. With default settings, it ran in about 17 hours on my GTX 670

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Message 19230 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 18:10:43 UTC - in response to Message 19202.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 18:11:38 UTC

Two things to check:

First
Have a look inside:

C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\boinc.thesonntags.com_collatz

for (yours will be slightly different, I am AMD):

large_collatz_6.04_windows_x86_64__opencl_amd_gpu.CONFIG

file extension maybe slightly different - but you are looking for a very long filename similar to mine above.

Is it blank inside? There should be config details along the lines of:

verbose=1
items_per_kernel=22
kernels_per_reduction=9
threads=8
sleep=1

If it is blank, put those lines in with Notepad, watch the file extension on saving, don't save as .txt file.

With six GPUs running, probably best to run with kernel = 21 to start with, if then ok change to 22.

Second
Irrespective of what you find in the file above, the CPU setting should be changed from 0.01 to at least 0.25, 0.5 would be ideal. The application needs lots of CPU support. It maybe that NVidia cards can get along with less - not sure, I am AMD - but as far as I know its true for both AMD and NVidia.

Using the classic setting of 0.01 will slow it down horribly


Thanks,
I did set the file but still only see 0.01 on each 6 projects now running.
I have to wait until my other CPU projects complete and then I will see if it get any better with running only GPU Projects. Somehow some collatz CPU Projects started up even though I have them turned off, as I only run collatz on my GPUs.

verbose=1
items_per_kernel=21
kernels_per_reduction=9
threads=8
sleep=1

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Message 19231 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:39:19 UTC - in response to Message 19230.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 19:52:28 UTC

I did set the file but still only see 0.01 on each 6 projects now running.


The CPU setting is inside the app_config.xml inside your Project Directory. You set an app_config.xml inside each individual Project Directory - its not one size fits all. Below is mine at present for Collatz (I don't go a lot on CPU WUs, I just run four as I use the beast for other things whilst its crunching) - that uses 6 out of my 12 Cores for Collatz

<app_config>
<app>
<name>solo_collatz</name>
<max_concurrent>6</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>1.0</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.0</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>

Strictly speaking you only need a maximum of 0.5 CPU per GPU at Collatz (some will get away with less, but its not worth messing, just give it a min of 0.5). The above will run 2xGPU WUs (one per card supported by 1xCPU each GPU WU)) and 4 x CPU WUs. Change values to suit your setup/wishes. I give it 1.0 CPU per WU (which is way over the top) as I have the cores spare, you can go below 0.5 ..... but be very attentive to the resultant speed.... I just leave it at 0.5 min, 1.0 maximum and have done with it !!

Keep your eye on CPU temperatures ..... you may need an app to monitor them depending on your setup, this one is as good as any as such:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/Real_Temp/

Real Temp will not work on AMD 1090T's or below, but any more modern than that, its fine. If you have not got a favourite CPU Temp util - that one will do the job.

0.01 CPU will make it feel as though there is a Tonne weight around its neck :)

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Message 19232 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:50:27 UTC

My 2 AMD show 0.88 without adding any to the config file.

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Message 19233 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:55:41 UTC

OK I set my app_config.xml to the below.

<app_config>
<app>
<name>solo_collatz</name>
<max_concurrent>6</max_concurrent>
<gpu_versions>
<gpu_usage>1.0</gpu_usage>
<cpu_usage>1.0</cpu_usage>
</gpu_versions>
</app>
</app_config>

Thanks

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Message 19234 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:55:55 UTC - in response to Message 19232.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 20:02:16 UTC

My 2 AMD show 0.88 without adding any to the config file.


If that were me, I'd explicitly set the app_config file, doing that you remain in control and not The Beast working to defaults - the latter can be a "moveable" beast depending on the app :)

EDIT:
Cross posted .... :)
re below - okie doke :)

Make sure its set for what you want/need, that's for my Beast, it if fits what you want to do, that's fine, but do revue what you want to happen, and what its set for. Used "as is" on your machine that should feed GPU WUs one each to each of your Cores.

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Message 19235 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 20:02:07 UTC
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 20:03:09 UTC

OK

Show this <name>solo_collatz</name> be
<name>large_collatz</name>

I would like to set each of the 6 GPU to use .5 or higher.

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Message 19236 - Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 20:06:47 UTC - in response to Message 19235.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2014, 20:08:40 UTC

Show this <name>solo_collatz</name> be
<name>large_collatz</name>


In theory yes .... but I have not used that config file explicitly for the Large WUs, and I am not certain what the file title will be inside

<name>????</name>

Be attentive to the result, because it may not be "large_collatz" as a title for the name clause.

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