Supported Platforms
log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Number crunching : Supported Platforms

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4
Author Message
Profile Slicker
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Jun 09
Posts: 2525
Credit: 740,580,099
RAC: 1
Message 23931 - Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 15:56:31 UTC - in response to Message 23930.

I have, now have it working with the latest driver after a clean install so something clearly went bad when I last updated. Still no luck with the tablet, though.


To be honest, phones, tablets, etc. have so little computing power due to their limited heat dissipation (not giant heat sink for fan) that the CPU is limited due to heat issues. Because of that, a WU that takes 45 seconds on a high end GPU takes a week or more on those devices. So while I appreciate that you want to use your tablets and other hand held devices, their use or lack thereof has very little effect on the overall efficiency of the project as a single GPU can replace hundreds of android devices.

Profile step2000
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Aug 13
Posts: 96
Credit: 1,477,197,840
RAC: 1,944,774
Message 23932 - Posted: 21 Mar 2017, 16:15:58 UTC - in response to Message 23931.

Another reason is that while the tablet could process the code it would be only processing 32bit and also would have a very slim memory channel for swap of results to compare to results (switching). Have you every seen a real multiple task running on a tablet? You can swap and application to background (sleep) but really running 2 or more tasks just scales really bad. Threads on ATOM or less processors even with many cores is not pretty today and would if pushed provide such small results I would be asking why!

I do know some BITCOIN projects are using specialized ASICS/Processors but that code is very small and does only a few calculations in memory. The process for this and many other projects requires memory compare and other floating point calculations which again on small die sized processors is difficult and well a waste of time to program for the returns. BIG Calcs take BIG hardware !
____________
Retired Business Owner/Developer
Working toward a real solution to why programming takes so many versions to get the end product that just keeps getting better with each version. Do Loop of Products!

Jammassinia
Send message
Joined: 16 Oct 15
Posts: 5
Credit: 542,562,230
RAC: 2,209,970
Message 23955 - Posted: 13 Apr 2017, 9:20:27 UTC - in response to Message 23931.

To be honest, phones, tablets, etc. have so little computing power due to their limited heat dissipation (not giant heat sink for fan) that the CPU is limited due to heat issues. Because of that, a WU that takes 45 seconds on a high end GPU takes a week or more on those devices. So while I appreciate that you want to use your tablets and other hand held devices, their use or lack thereof has very little effect on the overall efficiency of the project as a single GPU can replace hundreds of android devices.


You say that, but my phones are currently churning through several tasks per day each (1 per core every ~4 hours), so a week is a massive exaggeration, and these are hardly top of the range, are several years old and I'm not doing anything special to prevent thermal throttling etc. However, I have an old laptop cooling pad I could run them on if I wanted to try and improve it, thanks for giving me ideas! LOL

I think with some more modern phones and definitely with tablets, it's worth looking at more closely for some people, even if an extreme graphics card IS worth 200+ of them, since there's older graphics cards out there still on this project they can definitely surpass, and potentially replace for some people.

My tablet, despite lacking a compute capable GPU, more than keeps up with my laptops GPU when running things like Seti, and my laptop hasn't done too badly with Collatz in the past, (I've recently halved the time the laptop runs Collatz/Seti tasks on the GPU just with a few driver tweaks and a better cooling pad which now gives it a slight edge on the tablet, but overall the tablet has done more despite being attached 6 months later than the laptop)

Clearly my desktop, now that it's running, IS far superior as you'd expect, and yes it'll run Micro Collatz in a matter of seconds as you suggest (it's running the full version instead as it seems like better use of it), but essentially I wanted to see how far I could push my total on the limited hardware I have at present, that's part of the fun.
Really just wanted to see how it fares as, judging by the performance with Seti, it should be capable of getting up to between 70-90k RAC over here, since my laptop does when running Collatz constantly (GPU only), and that certainly adds up even if it's not the millions my desktop puts out. Even if it was only half the laptop speed because it doesn't get new drivers or cooling my laptop does etc, I'd be happy with that. And, since the Seti servers go down for maintenance every Tuesday and it often runs out of tasks at that time, I wanted to run Collatz on those days to minimise downtime as it's the only other project available for that CPU/OS combination with Boinc at present, except that it doesn't actually work. If something else came available obviously I'd leave Collatz to the hardcore GPUs if it proved too much.

The issue I think lies with the fact it isn't a "normal" android OS like the phones have; It's one made specifically for that tablet, running on top of Google's core parts. Presumably it hasn't got proper functionality with the android equivalent to Visual Studio. If anyone has any suggestions for key files regarding that which it may be searching for, so I can check if they are present, I'd appreciate it. :)

Profile step2000
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 1 Aug 13
Posts: 96
Credit: 1,477,197,840
RAC: 1,944,774
Message 23956 - Posted: 13 Apr 2017, 13:04:20 UTC - in response to Message 23955.

I think you should maybe understand the pay back to code for such a small group isn't what most show string project do. The 80/20 rule applies to these projects always. SETI has some really great staff and funding and well most others do not. While like I have said 32bit droid systems can process code the question is how many users will use it. I have 6+ tablets in office and home and would never use them for this operation. They were designed for simple surfing and basic use (Quick down and dirty use). Most users either have processing farms of systems with GPU doing the heavy lifting to get numbers for projects or use their computers idle times to crunch. I think JON and his funds are spent in a wise manner and should look where the biggest bang for his small bucks are being spent is proper.

Thanks to Jon and all the money he is spending to keep this project moving forward.

Regards,

STEP2000 (G. Nelson)
____________
Retired Business Owner/Developer
Working toward a real solution to why programming takes so many versions to get the end product that just keeps getting better with each version. Do Loop of Products!

Jammassinia
Send message
Joined: 16 Oct 15
Posts: 5
Credit: 542,562,230
RAC: 2,209,970
Message 23957 - Posted: 14 Apr 2017, 7:39:55 UTC - in response to Message 23956.

The relevant droid code already exists in terms of the project, so it's not particularly an issue for Jon to solve personally. I 100% understand that it comes down to bang for your buck on so many levels, from coding to hardware to staff for all the projects.
So where it's not the code, it is however the device that is clearly missing something, just like most PCs don't have the relevant components of Visual Studio until you install something which requires it/install the full package. I simply want to know, are there are specific files in the Visual Studio 2012 C++ runtime that Collatz utilises while others could be ignored, or does it require everything?
Clearly these files exist in Android (ARM) forms on the phones, but not the tablet, however Boinc clearly sees the CPU as being compatible with the project. I have seen other devices using the same CPU successfully, meaning this particular OS is likely missing something specific.
We still have compatibility for 8400GS graphics cards that, having personally tested my old card, is a far worse option than a decade newer mid-range tablet, hands down, in a number of tasks, both in terms of time and power consumption, but somewhere you can guarantee there's a few 8400GS still slowly crunching, where someone's scraped together some old parts and added another box to their processing farm, knowing it cost nothing if it burns out.
I certainly see no loss to the project for parts of the community to voluntarily help Jon extend compatibility via a simple work around, if one can be sought, which he is then free to help distribute or not depending if he sees merit in it. I just wanted to see if there was a way I could drop those files in my device and get Collatz running without causing bugs, package it up and ask Jon if he wants to test it further, since the ARM (android) package of VS 2012 won't install. (Perhaps a specific issue, perhaps wider reaching across Android?)
Voluntary contributions like that are another way other projects have made up for the lack of funding. Once the option is there, it's there; it's useful to some, or it's not, at any given time. Every WU crunched helps Jon reach his goals. I guess that's my motivation to try and crunch any which way I can. I certainly don't want this to appear as if I'm angry at Jon for not including what I know is a niche area from the get-go. I simply wanted to try something which may help, once I knew what was specifically relevant, because there is potential, however limited.

Profile Jimbo
Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 10
Posts: 23
Credit: 1,099,166,863
RAC: 1,041,369
Message 23974 - Posted: 21 Apr 2017, 2:58:50 UTC - in response to Message 4.

<cc_config>
<options>
<skip_cpu_benchmarks>1</skip_cpu_benchmarks>
<use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://www.primegrid.com/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/</url>
<device_num>1</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://www.bitcoinutopia.net/bitcoinutopia/</url>
<device_num>1</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
</options>
</cc_config>

i wanted to crunch collatz using my 2nd gpu and i use this cc_config but i get an error:

cc_config.xml: bad URL in GPU exclusion: http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/

should i change something

Jammassinia
Send message
Joined: 16 Oct 15
Posts: 5
Credit: 542,562,230
RAC: 2,209,970
Message 23984 - Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 23:31:58 UTC - in response to Message 23974.

<cc_config>
<options>
<skip_cpu_benchmarks>1</skip_cpu_benchmarks>
<use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://www.primegrid.com/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/</url>
<device_num>1</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/</url>
<device_num>0</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
<exclude_gpu>
<url>http://www.bitcoinutopia.net/bitcoinutopia/</url>
<device_num>1</device_num>
</exclude_gpu>
</options>
</cc_config>

i wanted to crunch collatz using my 2nd gpu and i use this cc_config but i get an error:

cc_config.xml: bad URL in GPU exclusion: http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/

should i change something


I believe Collatz changed URL recently as I got a message about it in the notices, saying to remove the project and reattach at the URL "https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/". Presumably you followed that instruction also at some point?
Thus, I believe from your code, it's simply a need to change the "http://" part to "https://", which should give a valid URL.
Hopefully that works for you.

Profile David Riese
Send message
Joined: 23 Sep 12
Posts: 132
Credit: 4,010,552,384
RAC: 5,375,525
Message 24194 - Posted: 18 Aug 2017, 0:54:21 UTC
Last modified: 18 Aug 2017, 0:55:16 UTC

The Mac thread is pretty quiet, so I thought I would ask this question here:

Does anyone have experience with Collatz or BOINC on pre-2013 MacPro with an NVIDIA GTX 10xx series GPU or a NVIDIA Titan Xp GPU? I am seeing a lot of cheap MacPro 3,1 and 4,1 units on eBay and I am getting the itch to upgrade one into a combo cruncher/work machine.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4
Post to thread

Message boards : Number crunching : Supported Platforms


Main page · Your account · Message boards


Copyright © 2018 Jon Sonntag; All rights reserved.