How far has Collatz conjecture been computationally verified?

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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3180 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:36:44 UTC - in response to Message 3179.  

I DELETED YOUR POSTS


Is it possible for one of the admins to bring the main deleted threads back? The following were deleted...
- A productive collaboration between myself and another user to understand the algorithm behind this project. We found the kernel used by this project and discussed his FPGA results...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=153
- I posted information I discovered about how to benchmark this project (CPU and GPU), but I can just repeat myself here: Jon S. runs (or at least ran) 3*2^44 = 5.3e13 numbers each task
- I share my new algorithm...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=223
- I point out a fatal error in this BOINC project's algorithm...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=224
- I break the sad news regarding results being invalid to the cafe...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=225

Deleting posts instead of replying to them shows something is up. Censorship stinks of something.



Ive seen your posts around. Idk you have developed your own project it seems and should go implement it as you see fit? I don't think your being censored but from what I have read and understand you are being a nuance and have ignored what the admins have said in regards to your posts. So go and implement your own boinc project. Im not discounting anything you have said. It seems like you are a smart guy or something to that effect.

Let me enlighten you. You can not come into other peoples spaces and say things like "I break the sad news" or "I point out a fatal error".. and then not expect those people to remove your posts... You are using what i like to call nuclear bombs or world ending statements. In a war of words that people have, called discussion, you my friend walked into a space and farted with your mouth hole and then you actually detonated a weapon of mass destruction, in terms of how you have a conversation. Sorry man. You are way to pointed with your statements and i understand why you were censored. For one when i first read your post... with no basis at all what so ever... i stopped mining this project.... I am now mining it again so no worries but you my friend did something that is a big no no in the conversation forum world. You yelled fire in a crowded space.

Your lucky our not banned or something worse that the internet has to offer ;)
I am not the person that posted the stuff above that was deleted. I was just pointing out that it should have been replied to with reasoning, stating why the poster was wrong. Deleting something is what governments do when they don't like the press saying something publicly. Deletion is admittance of guilt. If no guilt, state why the accusation is wrong.
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Message 3181 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:39:53 UTC - in response to Message 3180.  
Last modified: 25 Feb 2021, 16:41:03 UTC

I DELETED YOUR POSTS


Is it possible for one of the admins to bring the main deleted threads back? The following were deleted...
- A productive collaboration between myself and another user to understand the algorithm behind this project. We found the kernel used by this project and discussed his FPGA results...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=153
- I posted information I discovered about how to benchmark this project (CPU and GPU), but I can just repeat myself here: Jon S. runs (or at least ran) 3*2^44 = 5.3e13 numbers each task
- I share my new algorithm...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=223
- I point out a fatal error in this BOINC project's algorithm...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=224
- I break the sad news regarding results being invalid to the cafe...
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=225

Deleting posts instead of replying to them shows something is up. Censorship stinks of something.



Ive seen your posts around. Idk you have developed your own project it seems and should go implement it as you see fit? I don't think your being censored but from what I have read and understand you are being a nuance and have ignored what the admins have said in regards to your posts. So go and implement your own boinc project. Im not discounting anything you have said. It seems like you are a smart guy or something to that effect.

Let me enlighten you. You can not come into other peoples spaces and say things like "I break the sad news" or "I point out a fatal error".. and then not expect those people to remove your posts... You are using what i like to call nuclear bombs or world ending statements. In a war of words that people have, called discussion, you my friend walked into a space and farted with your mouth hole and then you actually detonated a weapon of mass destruction, in terms of how you have a conversation. Sorry man. You are way to pointed with your statements and i understand why you were censored. For one when i first read your post... with no basis at all what so ever... i stopped mining this project.... I am now mining it again so no worries but you my friend did something that is a big no no in the conversation forum world. You yelled fire in a crowded space.

Your lucky our not banned or something worse that the internet has to offer ;)
I am not the person that posted the stuff above that was deleted. I was just pointing out that it should have been replied to with reasoning, stating why the poster was wrong. Deleting something is what governments do when they don't like the press saying something publicly. Deletion is admittance of guilt. If no guilt, state why the accusation is wrong.


Deletion is not an admission of guilt. Its called Public Relations and it is about creating an image that must be strictly adheared by due to the fact that the internet is filled with two sheet to the wind individuals who are full of themselves and think they can deduce guilt from such silly things as public relations.

Governments kill people when they are displeased. I doubt collatz conjecture is planning on exterminating any populations in the near future.
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Message 3182 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:43:08 UTC - in response to Message 3181.  
Last modified: 25 Feb 2021, 16:50:24 UTC

Ok now I must be clear. I point my words at the respective proper indivduals who are causing all of this nonsense. Its so irrelevant to me that i dont even want to go back and read. But i may have pointed my words at the incorrect gentleman and I wanted to retract any accusatory statements i made at that individual but still point those statements in the direction that they were intended which is at the OP or the creator or generator of this conversation.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3184 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:51:23 UTC - in response to Message 3182.  

Ok now I must be clear. I point my words at the respective proper indivduals who are causing all of this nonsense. Its so irrelevant to me that i dont even want to go back and read. But i may have pointed my words at the incorrect gentleman and I wanted to retract any accusatory statements i made at that individual but still point those statements in the direction that they were intended.
ROFL, thanks for calling me a "gentleman", that doesn't normally happen. Although I was called "sir" at one place of work!

The person you're having a go at may be arrogant, but they're making valid (possibly incorrect or unworkable) points on how to improve the project. They're not having a go at the project, they're trying to help. Responding to his points and saying why they cannot be implemented is better than just censoring him.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3185 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 16:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 3181.  
Last modified: 25 Feb 2021, 16:57:56 UTC

Deletion is not an admission of guilt. Its called Public Relations and it is about creating an image that must be strictly adheared by due to the fact that the internet is filled with two sheet to the wind individuals who are full of themselves and think they can deduce guilt from such silly things as public relations.
You've hit the nail on the head, you're making the same point as me. For good public relations, any accusations should be replied to so everyone can see the project is worthwhile. When people see evidence of censorship, they think something is up.

Governments kill people when they are displeased.
Some do, the "civilised" ones do it more quietly. The USA government has killed people for disagreeing with them on "scientific" policies, and then removed all evidence of it happening, even from Google.

I doubt collatz conjecture is planning on exterminating any populations in the near future.
You never know, if it's disproved, it might destroy everything we know about mathematics, and there will be world war 3 ;-)
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Message 3186 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 17:13:15 UTC - in response to Message 3184.  

ROFL, thanks for calling me a "gentleman", that doesn't normally happen. Although I was called "sir" at one place of work!

The person you're having a go at may be arrogant, but they're making valid (possibly incorrect or unworkable) points on how to improve the project. They're not having a go at the project, they're trying to help. Responding to his points and saying why they cannot be implemented is better than just censoring him.


Now i can work with this :3 I agree maybe something good can come from talking about all of the points brought forward and thats how science works! :D I guess the word I was trying to fish for with all of my flashy language is arrogant. I actually would myself like to know the answer to the name of this thread and i think now the discussion is headed in the right direction with a friendlier vibe. I was drawn to the question anyways thats why i poked my head in here. I think a lot of clarification has been reached reading the above text from the admin although more is always appreciated since im new here.

My main reason for being a little upset with the author is the lack of foresight about the public relations thing and how new users would view how he said what he said and whatnot. I have nothing against the general idea of what he is talking about. But like.. my main advice to the op is save those weapons of mass destruction cards for your bridge burning days :)
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Message 3187 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 18:02:42 UTC - in response to Message 3185.  
Last modified: 25 Feb 2021, 18:03:13 UTC

I doubt collatz conjecture is planning on exterminating any populations in the near future.
You never know, if it's disproved, it might destroy everything we know about mathematics, and there will be world war 3 ;-)


We await this possible future and calculate endlessly.
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Message 3188 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 18:05:46 UTC

Its possible that even now this is a shut up and calculate project. Much math and physics over the past 70+ years have been based on shut up and calculate. Why you may ask? Well simply because it actually works... look at our nuclear reactors and electricity production and consumption. Its no mystery that shut up and calculate works quite well.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3189 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 21:09:52 UTC - in response to Message 3166.  

You can't count on processing until a number is less than the starting number because with tens of thousands of work units being run simultaneously, you have no idea whether the "lower than your starting number" has actually been completed.
But presumably there's a number below which everything has been checked. And that number should be included with every work unit so we know when to stop.
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3190 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 21:11:58 UTC - in response to Message 3188.  

Its possible that even now this is a shut up and calculate project. Much math and physics over the past 70+ years have been based on shut up and calculate. Why you may ask? Well simply because it actually works... look at our nuclear reactors and electricity production and consumption. Its no mystery that shut up and calculate works quite well.
And we need that electricity to calculate :-)
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Peter Hucker of the Scottish Boinc Team

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Message 3191 - Posted: 25 Feb 2021, 21:12:43 UTC - in response to Message 3187.  

I doubt collatz conjecture is planning on exterminating any populations in the near future.
You never know, if it's disproved, it might destroy everything we know about mathematics, and there will be world war 3 ;-)
We await this possible future and calculate endlessly.
I've played Fallout 4, I'm ready.
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Message 3192 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 19:18:31 UTC - in response to Message 3191.  

Its possible that even now this is a shut up and calculate project.


"Shut up and calculate" is a Feynman motto regarding issues such as the metaphysical interpretation of quantum mechanics. Feynman's point is that the equations of quantum mechanics are valid and work, so just use them without pondering their deeper reality all day. This motto does not apply to the matters of efficiency and validity, both of which this BOINC project are lacking (and both of which scientists such as Feynman work hard to constantly improve).
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Message 3193 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 19:22:28 UTC - in response to Message 3192.  

Also, I would like to share some historical context to all of this discussion about my "vendetta". There are many things I believe in...
- transparency
- efficiency
- honesty
- scientists sharing and working together
- validity
- BOINC
- having fun coding algorithms
- conserving time and electricity
- responsibility falling on the leader (such as Jon Sonntag)
In early 2020, after a month of trying to figure out what this project's algorithms are to no success, I realized that only one or two people at this project even truly cared about these very important things. Instead, they just followed Jon Sonntag, who couldn't even respond to basic questions about what his project was even doing. Yes, my language was colorful at times (but accurate) because it was so easy to play around with the weak arguments and logic I was receiving from some of Jon's followers. Then, I wrote my own codes which very quickly became better than this project, then became MUCH better, and I then realized that this project is invalid for many reason. I had to work hard to figure things out because I had to fight Jon's secrecy. Only then did an admin (who I didn't realize was an admin at the time) mention my colorful language. I then stopped my colorful language and focused on the damning facts, but I avoided phrases like "this project is a joke" hoping the facts would let people rich this conclusion for them themselves. My posts were removed. Finally now, Jon Sonntag is trying to defend himself (yay!), and, ironically, many of the answers to his various points of confusion were on his forum for the past year until they were recently deleted. I have a "vendetta" *for* the list of things I stand for as a human being and *against* any leader who is an enemy of the above list of what I stand for. I always expected *some* of my posts to be deleted eventually. Instead, the posts that were deleted were primarily the ones with facts (some of my more colorful posts are still here on the forums, perhaps to make me look bad?). My plan when I was finally censured here was to post at the main BOINC forum instead...
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=14159
Or course, I would have preferred to have had my questions answered a year ago, but this is where we are now. If I ever get fully censured, I'll just make new accounts, but I'll keep pressing because a year of pressing *did* finally get Jon Sonntag to respond, so maybe it'll work again. I really don't want to offend the BOINC users here because that'll just cause them to dig deeper into their resolve to follow Jon, but I do hope that they can see that the facts themselves are damning.

I will keep fighting until Jon restarts this project. My tone is better I think, so thanks for that feedback. This project makes BOINC and all of volunteer computing look bad. Luckily, with the massive speedup of good code and the always-faster GPUs that people have, he could easily reproduce all of his previous results in a matter of months.
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Message 3194 - Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 19:45:29 UTC - in response to Message 3193.  

Since everyone keeps asking why I don't start my own project and my previous answers to this question have been deleted...

Sadly, I do not want to for many reasons...
(1) I don't have the hardware or Internet package necessary to do this. My newest computer is from 2012, and Xfinity doesn't let me host a server. I am perfectly happy with my hardware at the moment.
(2) I honestly think that the Collatz conjecture has been experimentally tested enough. I was motivated to write these codes because I find the algorithms and mathematical tricks to be fascinating.
(3) I would much prefer that people use their resources to cure diseases on BOINC.
(4) I simply wouldn't enjoy managing a BOINC project, though helping someone set one up would be a fun learning experience. I prefer math and code (and other things).

I'd be very happy to let someone else use my code for a BOINC project because, if you are going to use resources, you should be using the best code! In fact, over the summer, I could even help you set it up! I'm kinda curious about how setting up BOINC projects works, and I like the BOINC philosophy of giving people choice to compute whatever they want.
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Message boards : Science : How far has Collatz conjecture been computationally verified?


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