Validation error

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Nemesis

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Message 657 - Posted: 6 Jul 2018, 17:15:17 UTC

It seems my last 150 units sent to the server are with the status Validation error. Same thing goes with the other computers that tried to process the same units.
4284156	828781	6 Jul 2018, 3:07:21 UTC	6 Jul 2018, 17:05:59 UTC	Validate error	1,042.77	0.36	---	Collatz Sieve v1.30 (opencl_nvidia_gpu)
windows_x86_64


Any ideea what is going on?
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davebodger

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Message 661 - Posted: 6 Jul 2018, 17:56:48 UTC - in response to Message 657.  

It's all in this nearby thread :-
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/forum_thread.php?id=38#575

TLDR;
Collatz is being flooded with bad tasks by somebody trying to get more points than they are truly due.
This is affecting the validator which appears to be invalidating most tasks.
I've switched to amicable numbers while the admins sort it out.
Unfortunately I didn't notice for a couple of days so have had several hundred tasks invalidated.
Your mileage may vary. :-(
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Profile marsinph

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Message 673 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 12:48:06 UTC - in response to Message 661.  

The same for me. Validation error.
About someone who try to manipulate, it already happen in the past (march/april 2018).
The user was known ! The Admin needed to reset project.

He got thousand of tasks. Then on his host (un little quad core and very little GPU),
after a few hours, the host reach more than 10,000,000 credits with a RAC of more than 1,000,000 !!!
The most strange, no any WU were visible in returned tasks !

Something similair is strange now
https://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/show_host_detail.php?hostid=834662
Also host 831900 , 832118
Look when this host was created, when tasks were sent, when the results returned...
Totally this host returned about 2000 WU in only 2 days !
With a average working of 900 sec (15 minuts) and three GPU,
It is a max of 12 WU per hour (3gpu x 0.25hr) ?
So impossible to crunch two thousand WU in only three days !!!
And how to have 270,000,000 credits ???
With a average credit of 28,000 / WU, it need to return about 9650 WU !!!
With other words, considering 12 WU / hour, it would be 800 hours = 33 days

This host do it in a few hours !!!

Strange ! You say strange ? It is strange !!!
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Profile IDEA

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Message 680 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 21:54:54 UTC - in response to Message 673.  

Careful with the accusations sunshine as 831900 is one of mine.

It chews through WUs quickly because it is using a config file, cranking two WUs at a time and using MSI Afterburner too.

I calculate that it should end up just over 11,000,000 RAC -- just like Renato's 1080ti.

I've also posted this information in this section of the forum because there's no voodoo or cheating involved -- it's just efficient, 24/7 crunching.
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Profile mikey
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Message 681 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 22:05:38 UTC - in response to Message 680.  

Careful with the accusations sunshine as 831900 is one of mine.

It chews through WUs quickly because it is using a config file, cranking two WUs at a time and using MSI Afterburner too.

I calculate that it should end up just over 11,000,000 RAC -- just like Renato's 1080ti.

I've also posted this information in this section of the forum because there's no voodoo or cheating involved -- it's just efficient, 24/7 crunching.


I agree with you about the cheating BUT am NOT happy YOU OF ALL PEOPLE balked at the name calling!!! Pot kettle black comes to mind!!
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Profile IDEA

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Message 683 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 22:12:12 UTC - in response to Message 681.  

What "name calling"?

Nosing about for cheats but then pointing the finger at a clean host isn't name calling.
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Profile mikey
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Message 684 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 23:19:34 UTC - in response to Message 683.  

What "name calling"?

Nosing about for cheats but then pointing the finger at a clean host isn't name calling.


But renaming the Admin "Slacker" is okay?

As for cheating you are one of the very few people, I believe, actually running 2 wu's at the same time here. Most of us only run 1 at a time because the gpu is maxed out using the optimization codes, if someone were to 'assume' you were only running one wu at a time too then you are putting out some 'great' numbers.
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BarryAZ

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Message 685 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 23:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 684.  

Mikey, it seems some folks are rather 'output' focused about things and very sensitive to push back.

Seems a tad partisan to me <smile>
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Profile IDEA

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Message 687 - Posted: 7 Jul 2018, 23:53:35 UTC - in response to Message 684.  

What "name calling"?

Nosing about for cheats but then pointing the finger at a clean host isn't name calling.


But renaming the Admin "Slacker" is okay?

As for cheating you are one of the very few people, I believe, actually running 2 wu's at the same time here. Most of us only run 1 at a time because the gpu is maxed out using the optimization codes, if someone were to 'assume' you were only running one wu at a time too then you are putting out some 'great' numbers.



Yep. Slicker to Slacker is a play on his nickname -- not calling him a cheat, liar or fraud etc.

There are a number of people who run multiple WUs on GPUs that aren't fully utilised by BOINC.

Renato is and was criticised for it in this forum.

But, as he stated, completing two WUs in say 7' 20" is more efficient than completing one in 4' -- which is exactly what my 1080ti is doing.

I think it may have been you that told them that they were wrong -- but they were right -- and that's why your 1080ti was maxed out at 9,700,000 RAC and theirs was over 11,000,000.

Cautilus is another and they have posted numerous articles on how and why they do it -- and also a useful formula to work out the maximum RAC your host is capable of.

n * c ( 24 * (3600/t))

Where n = number of WUs processed at the same time. c = wu credit and t = wu processing time in seconds.

Make n = 2 and you'll see why Renato's 1080ti appears to be sluggish on a single WU but achieves a significantly higher RAC than yours.

Assuming that they are cheating isn't a good idea -- especially when this has been openly discussed on this forum and the maths is very simple.
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Brent

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Message 694 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 17:27:13 UTC

You may insert any name you desire into the blanks. As for me, we never had any hacker type issues with BOINC until the ........... hackers had the motive to cheat because they could made very little money by cheating. Now the ............... have ruined BOINC for everyone. They have caused us wasted electricity, computer time, and our time trying to clean up their mess. As far as AI am concerned, all of the ................ should be permanently banned from BOINC. LET THEM START THEIR OWN BLING SYSTEM AND LEAVE BOINC ALONE.
Brent
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Renato

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Message 696 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 21:57:58 UTC

I did not commit any fraud, I have only exhausted my 1080Ti graphics card with legal means.
But as I wrote in another post, I said goodbye to this project.

bye bye
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Profile IDEA

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Message 697 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 23:06:23 UTC - in response to Message 696.  

The number of stored, valid WUs is close to zero for most users now -- so perhaps it won't be long before the invalid WUs can be reprocessed?

Until then you could always try Amicable Numbers?

Unlike here, there is no suspicion cast over people who process more than one WU at a time -- in fact the Admin recommends it:

https://sech.me/boinc/Amicable/forum_thread.php?id=45&postid=468#468


And the Admin also helps newbies get started with Gridcoin too:

https://sech.me/boinc/Amicable/forum_thread.php?id=136&postid=860#860
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Message 698 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 23:10:52 UTC - in response to Message 694.  

You may insert any name you desire into the blanks. As for me, we never had any hacker type issues with BOINC until the ........... hackers had the motive to cheat because they could made very little money by cheating. Now the ............... have ruined BOINC for everyone. They have caused us wasted electricity, computer time, and our time trying to clean up their mess. As far as AI am concerned, all of the ................ should be permanently banned from BOINC. LET THEM START THEIR OWN BLING SYSTEM AND LEAVE BOINC ALONE.


That's simply not true!! Even back in the days of pre-Boinc people figured out how to crunch a Seti unit to 99%, stop it, copy it to another folder, and then finish it and return it, copy the almost finished file into the folder, finish it and return it, etc, etc, etc. Every time you returned a wu you got credit for it, some people got LOTS of credits that way!! THEN people did the so called 'sneaker net' hack where they would download wu's onto one pc and crunch them on a MUCH faster pc at work for example, bring it home and return them, getting LOTS of credits that way. There were LOTS of other hacks too but they don't need to listed here.

On top of that each and every Project that the GridCoin folks attach too is ALLOWED by the Project itself to be in the Gridcoin 'whitelist'. Each and every Project has the right to say no, but few due because they want the wu's crunched. On top of that there is NO indication at this point that any GridCoin person was behind this particular hacking incident. AND the last hacker was referred to Collatz FROM GridCoin to determine IF they were in fact hacking!!! GridCoin in fact froze the individuals account until the investigation was complete and in the end they got ZERO money from their Collatz hacking.
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Message 699 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 23:39:44 UTC - in response to Message 698.  

Well said Mikey :)

Also, a lot of the participants in Gridcoin have been doing BOINC for years. Or even before BOINC existed -- I started in 1999 with the original SETI@home project and only started doing Gridcoin a couple of months ago.

Making this US v THEM is both wrong and very unhelpful for both BOINC and Gridcoin.

None of us want to see cheats ripping us off.
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Message 700 - Posted: 8 Jul 2018, 23:46:08 UTC - in response to Message 661.  

Yes, 100% of my tasks since 7/5/18 have been invalidated. Run times seem "normal" Collatz site was shut down not long ago because of intrusions, correct?

Happy 4th of July... I didn't look for 3 days to see why my daily average was dropping so quickly.
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Jeff_Wright

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Message 707 - Posted: 10 Jul 2018, 2:32:45 UTC

So can anyone tell me when this will be fixed? I hate wasting precious computer time if they will just be invalid!!!!!!!!! I just returned one and suspended the rest and it came back invalid.
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Message 712 - Posted: 10 Jul 2018, 9:49:50 UTC - in response to Message 707.  

So can anyone tell me when this will be fixed? I hate wasting precious computer time if they will just be invalid!!!!!!!!! I just returned one and suspended the rest and it came back invalid.


The Admin worked on it over the 4th of July and until the weekend, then he had a pre-planned event he was required to attend but hopefully is back at it again now. In the News section one guy said his invalid numbers had changed but he didn't say if he got credits or not so it seems like the Admin is back at it again.
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Message 713 - Posted: 10 Jul 2018, 9:54:03 UTC - in response to Message 700.  

Yes, 100% of my tasks since 7/5/18 have been invalidated. Run times seem "normal" Collatz site was shut down not long ago because of intrusions, correct?

Happy 4th of July... I didn't look for 3 days to see why my daily average was dropping so quickly.


NO Collatz was previously shut down because someone was hacking the results and getting credit they should not have been getting. Something similar is happening again but the Boinc Server side software isn't cooperating and instead of JUST marking that person workunits invalid EVERYONES workunits are being marked as invalid. The Admin worked on it over the 4th of July, and continues to work on it, but the Server side software isn't easy to 'fix' as it's very redundant.
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Message 714 - Posted: 10 Jul 2018, 11:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 673.  

832118

Look when this host was created, when tasks were sent, when the results returned...


And that is one of mine. I'm running an optimized config and I have both a 1080 hybrid that's overclocked and a Titan V. My PC flys through WUs....there is no cheating going on. And I'm only partially using the Titan for this project, most of the time it's crunching Milky Way or amicable number work units.

What really sucks for me is I just noticed yesterday night. Only saving grace is the 1080 is dedicated to this project and since the Titan is doing other things I didn't lose that much.
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